GWTW discussion-Moon and Uncle-

[carlos]

hehe- Vivien was known by Fleming, on the set, by the nick name "Feedle dee dee"- OHHH...they had a lot of quarrels !!- haha- Both strong minded- But De Havilland, which I maintained correspondence during years, didn,t like Fleming also !!- But..as in the movie.. she was too shy to quarrel with him- Vivien was NOT a shy girl !!: a Scorpio, u know... . And Vivien couldn,t stand bad-manners. Many on the set remembered Fleming beeing a...S..O..A..B
-About Ashey and Scarlett in the lumber mill: Yes, I agree with you: but.. I insist that Scarlett,s "weakness" was to REMEMBER the Past: most of us have same problem- As u said, I think she was "strong" because she never looked back, but when she did... MMMMMMM-
- About the O,Hara,s beeing "new-rich": yes, but remember Gerald was much loved in the County,(Georgia is different as, say, Virginia, Carolina etc-Also Atlanta, at that time was a "new city"..not like Savannah, Charleston etc-People were "new"..also, except the Wilkes: and they loves the O;Hara very much: see India,s reaction with Gerald at Twelve Oaks) because he was spontaneous and a gentleman despite his origins- Also.. Hellen was a Robillard: an aristocratic family from Savannah. Their neighbors loved them and respected Hellen above any other Southern Lady in the County- I think that Scarlett was the "black-sheep" here... hehe - And I agree completely with you in this: when people weren,t "winners".. they tend to hate those who are. WE can see that in every field. So... I CAN,T BLAME Scarlett !!- I blame them !!.
- About Rhett: well, once I read a book talking about GWTW characters, telling that the main ones (Scarlett, Mammy, Rhett, Melly... (NOT Ashley) etc are three dimensional characters: something new in classic standars, and they explained, in the book, that because of the Story, which is based in TRUE events (even the personal ones), they are "alive", true, etc- I mean: people who are "good, bad, inocent, selfish" at the same time, etc.( Every human feeling)
In the case of Scarlett: she "loved" a "perfect-Southern-gentleman" SUIT- She put it (the suit) on Ashley- Beeing an adolescent she couln,t see reality, and as Ashley "plays the histerics" with her ( "Yes, I love you...", "But the honor..." "I married Melly because we are alike"..."Oh, Scarlett..you are so beautiful..not only your pretty face..but YOU"...NOT to mention he was VERY "attracted" to her .. THOSE KISSES !!) etc etc, she never saw the REAL Ashley till the end- And she did so because her love for Melly was much grown.
About Rhett: Scarlett WANTS to find a REAL gentleman for her- NOT Ashley, she would give him a kick in his ass if they ever marry, and she really loves Rhett, BUT... he was never a gentleman with her. If he would have been a gentleman (with her-same as he was with Melly) .. well, he would have gained Scarlett. Think in this: from the very first scene together he treated, her, like a "white-trash". And she knows that. In the Ball?: worse, in the bridge?: the kiss and HOW he "asks" for it ( almost a violation..) !!... she felt insulted, even if she was very much attracted to him- Worse in the scene where he asks, her, to marry him!!: everything he does is a pantomime- She rejects that- I don,t know IF you can understand me- She was a very well educated girl, even if she was spoiled, selfish, strong..etc- But she "loves" Ashley because HE was a gentleman under her young eyes- Remember HOW women were in those days: In the "Victorian-period" (1840-1900) the IDEAL of every well born woman were to marry well, with a gentleman- Scarlett, as I told you, was an Irish to the bones, much more alike her dad that to her mom..haha!! (she cryied because of that).. BUT she WAS a lady. Sometimes people made things "not-too-proper" but they are STILL good-born persons- She was VERY inteligent, almost a sex-kitten, also, and in a men,s world...MMMMMMM- Terrible- But she loves how Rhett was, his courage, his lookings, his character, and he was the only man who really knew her, EXCEPT in the fact that he "treated" bad- Ironic all the time- You can say that he did that because "If she knows I love her, she will play with me" (Rhett)- Nonsense, he has courage and all the qualities to fight against it- Why he never did?-(when he cames back from London and Scarlett was very happy with her baby-to come..he was TERRIBLE !!)
In the next scene, where Scarlett losts her unborn baby, and she asks, crying for Rhett, and Rhett was crying in the other room... MY HEAD EXPLODES with anger !!: Why in name of God nobody went to his room to tell him that ???- !!!!!!. Maybe their marriage could be saved-
What do you think about it?-

[MissMonoki]

Wow Uncle, you're a busy man, with all your posts!!

I have to say, I love Olivia DeHavilland (how wonderful to have corresponded with her!), she was marvellous, not just in this film, but also in e.a. The Heiress and the films with Errol Flynn.

Yes, as I understand it, Fleming was a man's man, no patience with women.

Now back to the film:
- I forgot that Mother O'Hara was a aristocratic lady. You're right about the black sheep thing: Scarlett is too lively and headstrong to be a graceful, obedient, calm daughter and wife, as etiquette dictated. I know you love Scarlett and you're very protective of her, but I wouldn't blame the others: in every situation you have leaders and followers and a stressful situation doesn't necessarily bring out the best in people. But their behaviour is tough on Scarlett.

- Ashley.
Yes, Scarlett may want a softspoken Southern Gentleman, but it is not what she needs. She idolizes him and is not able to see him for what he is until the end. Ashley comes from a family where cousins marry each other, and as the eldest son he does his duty. He wants the quiet life with calm, graceful Melly. But he lusts after Scarlett, who's beautiful and full of live. So he wants to do what is right for him and his family, but his sexual feelings sometimes pop up, so to speak...And then you get the hot and cold behaviour towards Scarlett (I want you but I don't want to give in to it) and this gives her false hope. That is not gentlemanlike behaviour, he's a tease!!!

- Rhett.
I feel the need to defend him. He's sort of a male version of her. A black sheep who doesn't behave according to the etiquette, intelligent, strong willed and full of live. And also honourable: she wants to save Tara, he wants to help the Southern cause and fight. In good situations they bring out the best in each other, but when things go bad they will deliberately try to hurt one another.
He does things he shouldn't do, but he doesn't treat her like white trash, in my opinion.
What I like about him is that he calls her out in the library after she makes a fool of herself: "And you Miss, are no lady! But don't think I hold that against you!"
At the ball he sees through her insincere gift of her wedding ring, but he understands her boredom and gives her an opportunity to have fun by asking her to dance at the auction.
He helps her in Atlanta and accompanies her on the way to Tara. Yes, he should not have kissed her like that. Cinematographically it looks great, but no woman likes to get forced.
After Frank's funeral he calls on her. She's been drinking and he gives her advice on that. When she reacts huffy, he mocks her. He gives her a little sales pitch when he asks her to marry him, saying he's the right age for her. She puts him down by triumphantly saying she will always love another man. He gets angry and forces her again.
On their honeymoon he gives her everything she wants and comforts her when she has a nightmare. He builds her a house and lets her do business. But he's frustrated because she pines for another man, refuses to have sex with him after Bonnie is born, and he reacts cruelly sometimes (like when he forces her to go to Ashley's birthday party, when he tries to crush her skull and takes her to bed, although in his defence: a man who makes you sing the morning after is a keeper!! ). I don't agree with his behaviour, but I understand it.
When he returns from London he greets her sarcastically. In my view he does this because he's afraid of her rejection and he armours himself. And because she feels rejected by him, she rejects him. Bad situation, they bring out the worst in each other.
They have grown apart, he's tired of waiting for her to love him and when Melly dies he wants to run away. He doesn't want to hang around and lose her to Ashley.
The scene when she calls for him after the miscarriage. Yes, that would have brought them together, but we don't know if it would have helped in the end: a lot of couples break up after the death of a child. And from a dramatic point of view it is far better to tease your audience and not let them have what they are craving. And I rather like it that it doesn't have the "Hollywood ending" of the two lovers confessing their love and kissing in the sunset.

If Rhett and Scarlett had had a straightforward relationship, it would have been a much shorter film, hahaha!

My question to you is: Rhett is trying to build their reputation and get accepted by the older families for Bonnie's sake by asking their advice and parading Bonnie around, behave according to the etiquette. Why does Scarlett pout instead of really help him with this? They take a stroll with the pram, but she is not enjoying it. Why doesn't she make this sacrifice for her daughter?

[carlos]

Well Moon: Certainly you have "the answers" to put me "in my place " !!- HEHE- In a moment I,m going to answer everything, but as I had just woke up from my nap- LONG NAP- I have to wait a moment to be completely awake -
You are right in so many things- But The first thing I,m going to make is to explain some things about me: As you said I,m protective about Scarlett and it,s true- Completely- But I have my reasons to do it- Sometimes I,m rather headstrong.. about this and other things, and if I write you some things about me I think u will understand: When I was very young (14) I took Scarlett as a model: I was very, very shy, insecure and affraid of life: When I saw GWTW the first time..well, I began to admire her behaviour and force, her determination against problems... NOT knowing that in the future I, myself, would have to suffer same situations to deal with- "She" helps me a lot: I began to change, not only in my character but also in my attitudes ( I "tends"-even today- to be like Ashley: melancoly, depressive..etc, so I "choose" to be more like her, for my own good)- GWTW , for me, is not "A movie" or the book is not only "A book": they both gave me a "second life"-
You will understand better if I write some things about me, later- ok?-

[carlos]

Well moon, here I am: I want to write u about some points about me so we can understand, each one, better:
- When I was young (I am 51 now) I was very, very insecure & shy- So much that I suffered a lot at school. I was born and raise in a Rural place, so in the city (Buenos Aires is one of the biggest in the world) I was treated like a "peasant".. so, I becomes more shy. Also I had to fight and resolve..some other "inner-feelings" that made me very guilty ( can u imagine which?)- My only refugee were classics, music and my grandparents- They were musicians, very sensibly and they were MY REAL parents (from the heart)- They gave me a LIFE.
- Suddenly... my almost "ideal" existence begans to fade: My dad shoot himself, my first and great love-of my life died IN FRONT of me from a sudden heart-attack, my elder brother died very young, my mom nearly dies also, my grandparents died and their house in Mar del Plata ( a sea-side place) was demolished (in that house I spent 40 years of my life, the most happy ones), and recently..my best friend, a woman-painter who was with me 35 years as friend.. died- ALL this in the term of 8 years-
- I AM unable to resolve, quickly, a lost. I am the melancolic type, have my strong depressions (a legacy of my dad,s) and I fight DAY BY DAY to have a calm & happy life- Some months ago I couldn,t fight...and I had my first heart attack.
- I am a Fine Arts professor in an University in Buenos Aires: i have no children of my own, so my students are my "children"- Also the members in this Site: for that reason..both places, the Univerity and the Site are very important to me. I have (always had) the tendency of "protecting others"- Mainly youngsters- That father,s feeling.
- When i was 14, I saw GWTW: I was amazed with Scarlett: a young girl in those times ( XIX Century) without FEAR !!!!, a strong character, beautiful (I always saw myself as non-attractive), and able to fight against problems or dramas.
- Something happens to me after the film: I was in shock: I couldn,t talk, eat, think in other things..etc- So I began to study EVERYTHING about Movies, Stars, Vivien in particular, Art...History..-It was just like meeting a very important person who changes your whole life, a person who opens, you, many "doors". And..years later I,m living because of that "Studies"- GWTW gave /gives me a LIFE- For God sake !!
- Also, each time I am "down".. only seeing some scenes of the film, hearing the music or something..makes me strong-
- Scarlett not only helps her family and Tara, she also HELPS ME !!- I know you can understand me- Art saves us!!
- Loosing some of my loving ones, especially my partner, loosing that house (my Shangry-La).. made me a scared man- A frightening person: I am always "Waiting" the next drama.. if u can understand me-
- I am terriby sensible: it,s not a virtue in my case: a word, a sad story, to see somebody,s suffering.. an animal who suffers..many things, sends me to HELL-
- After my partner,s loose I had to be in a Phsichiatric Place for a month: I wanted to die- Litteraly... (2 times)
- Now, I tend to choose ONLY things that makes me happy, or at least calm: I can,t "play" with my feelings anymore- I am medicated ( sometimes I need more, sometimes I don,t) now, and I hate..I can,t stand dramas.
- So... after all this, you can imagine how important, to me, is Scarlett: not only her, but also Tara (I lost MY Tara).. etc. I saw GWTW at the RIGHT time of my life, without knowing how much it will help me in the future!!
- As I have the tendency to protect my loving ones or those who makes me happy... sometimes with Scarlett i,m rather "blind"..as I can be with a daughter... I don,t know how to explain this- With members here I am always trying to make them happy-even if I get angry sometimes with some attitudes ( that hurts ME.. not always BAD attitudes..but something that hurts me), I try to protect them- The other day I read something terrible: that in USA the second cause of death among youngsters is suicide- Well, I am desvastated- I could do anything to help members to be happy...I don,t want to loose anyone like that, like my dad-
- Moon: I know I,m not a therapist, but I did /do therapy: I know me.. What I wrote is the real thing. I am more like Ashley (living in the past, unable to see reality..) than Scarlett, but I DON,T WANT to be like that- I,m a fighter, I know that, but sometimes it,s hard- Too hard,. believe me.For example: I have decided NOT to fall in love again: I tried twice, after my first love death, for no purpose, I suffered too much. I can,t suffer anymore with that, so..I choose to be alone, still loving my lost-love. Not many people have what I had..so...I am happy the way it is.As my therapist told me: "Carlos, you are a widower. If u CHOOSE to love your lost-partner..who can blame you?"-
- I hope that this things I told u.. makes u understand WHY GWTW and especially Scarlett are SO important to me-
And to understand... if u can.. why sometimes i,m rather "blind" because of my love to them- hehe.

- I will answer your question about GWTW.. later- ok?- And I have some questions for you about what u wrote...

[MissMonoki]

Hi Uncle,

Big shocker for me. I've send you a private message in reply to your life story.

On the subject of GWTW: I'm looking forward to your answer, but I will wait patiently!

[carlos]

Hi Uncle,

Big shocker for me. I've send you a private message in reply to your life story.

On the subject of GWTW: I'm looking forward to your answer, but I will wait patiently!

Moon: did you sent me a PM?: I didn,t received any....

[MissMonoki]

Stupid me: I sent it to you hotmail address, but I've now also sent a PM.

[carlos]

My dear Moon: As I began to read your PM..I just stop reading to tell u this: I have NEVER felt insulted or anything like that with our discussion: I lOVE our discussion, and every day I came here waiting your answers- No, never... Please, understand WHY I sent you my message: it was because at this point I saw it necessary to explain, to you, how important GWTW is to me- And to explain that..I had to write you some things about me- That,s all- You are a very respectfull person to me and to everyone here-
I repeat: I have never, ever, felt bad with our discussion- Ok?- Kisses- Uncle

[carlos]

I lOVE YOU, MOON- Read my PM please- uncle-

[MissMonoki]

Thank you for that heart warming message, I feel the same! You can always reach me!!!

Lots of love,