Forgotten

[Carmen]

Thanks Uncle Carlos!! I've always found this topic very intriguing, and it's pure interest what drives me into it. You are right, Uncle, Leslie never shines in GWTW, and I love your explanation to that.
After reading all your replies, I think I have another reason why some make it and some don't.
Stars that somehow make a change make it better than others through time. Take Bette Grable, for example. She was quite a hit back then, but she didn't contribute with anything new to the industry.... am I right?
Still, I don't think this is the only reason at all. It's also a great deal about personality and presence. Clark Gable had a gib presence in whatever he did....
Ingrid Bergman, for example, was quite a change when she got to the movies. She came out of a big bunch of glamorous, goddess-like stars to be the "simple girl". I guess that was one of the reasons why she shined and still shines so much. And her screen presence is also very strong. Intermezzo is a good example. Compare Ingrid with Leslie. Just like Uncle Carlos said. It's Ingrid that you look at and remember.


Hey, I second the idea of a Forgotten Stars Club, definitively!

[carlos]

I think you are RIGHT- Those Stars who never change their "Screen personality".. faded away- Think in Vivien Leigh: in 1939 she was Scarlett- In 1951 Blanche Du Bois: completely different not only in character but also in acting !!- That film "A Streetcar.." is one of the fav among the "New generations" who worships the "Actor,s Studio", during the 50,s and 60,s: Vivien tranforms, herself, from an "english-style-actress" to an "actor-Studio-actress"-
In case of Bette, Gable,Bergman, etc-even Bogart..it was the same-Uncle.

And IF I think more about it I guess that REAL ACTORS & ACTRESSES made a better change- Not only "Stars" (case of Grable)- if u understand, me- Clark Gable changes: he was a Big Star during the 30,s but AFTER the War (and one of the reasons for that change was Lombard,s death) he becomes a very good actor: in his last film "The Misfits" he was for an Academy award- really.

[Carmen]

Wow, you are right about that, Uncle!! Now that I think about it, because I recently saw the movie "My Week With Marilyn" (a movie about a guy who meets Marilyn during the production of The Prince and the Showgirl), that maybe if Marilyn Monroe hadn't died at the peak of her career in such a mysterious and tragic way, being so famous , maybe she wouldn't have made it. Think of it. She was a star, not an actress; she always played practically the same role; a BIG part of her success was her looks.... Really, maybe if she hadn't died she would have been forgotten just like many others, don't you think?

[carlos]

Wow, you are right about that, Uncle!! Now that I think about it, because I recently saw the movie "My Week With Marilyn" (a movie about a guy who meets Marilyn during the production of The Prince and the Showgirl), that maybe if Marilyn Monroe hadn't died at the peak of her career in such a mysterious and tragic way, being so famous , maybe she wouldn't have made it. Think of it. She was a star, not an actress; she always played practically the same role; a BIG part of her success was her looks.... Really, maybe if she hadn't died she would have been forgotten just like many others, don't you think?

I think so- "The prince and.." was a nightmare to do- Marylin went to the Actor,s Studio to learn how to act in 1955, and.. Lee Strasberg, the "boss" of the Studio, convinced, her, that she WAS a great actress!! (many said that he told her that because she was very famous and having her there was an extra-bonus to the Studio). Strasberg also convinced, her, that she NEEDED a permanent companion when filming , so his wife was with her every second, giving her "ideas" etc- During the filming of "The Prince.." in England in 1956, Olivier (director and co-star) was in rages with Mrs Strasberg, as he told Marilyn to do something and Mrs Strasberg,( Paula Strasberg ) told her the opossite. He told her NOT to stay in the set, so Marilyn played the Prima-Donna all the time: not going to the set or arriving very late, and when going she didn,t know the dialogues etc- Olivier himself remembered it like a real-nightmare !!- Marilyn was impossible to work with: same attitudes during "Some like it hot" 1959, and "The Misfits" 1961- During the filming of the last film, Gable had to wait, Marilyn, during hours, had to "help" her all through the filming, and when he died of a heart attack days after the filming,s ending..everybody said that the cause of his death was Marilyn,s attitude during filming- I can tell u more: Gable,s widow (Kay Williams) forbidded Marilyn to go to the funerals !!- A nasty story and a very difficult Star !!-
Many people loves her (Marilyn): I don,t- I think that the proper way of acting with your co-stars, directors, etc. must be the opposite of Marilyn,s attitudes, and she died exactly in "her" time: In the 60,s things began to change, and those "Star attitudes" were no longer acceptable- A different case was Judy Garland: she was labeled as "difficult" cause her drug problem, BUT she tried so hard to "make it" that her co-stars, directors etc admires her a lot- She was a sick-girl, NOT like Marilyn-
I had (HAD-PAST) a friend that loved Marylin. So.. when he talked, and talked about how wonderful she was..I was like - hehe. uncle

[Carmen]

I think so- "The prince and.." was a nightmare to do- Marylin went to the Actor,s Studio to learn how to act in 1955, and.. Lee Strasberg, the "boss" of the Studio, convinced, her, that she WAS a great actress!! (many said that he told her that because she was very famous and having her there was an extra-bonus to the Studio). Strasberg also convinced, her, that she NEEDED a permanent companion when filming , so his wife was with her every second, giving her "ideas" etc- During the filming of "The Prince.." in England in 1956, Olivier (director and co-star) was in rages with Mrs Strasberg, as he told Marilyn to do something and Mrs Strasberg,( Paula Strasberg ) told her the opossite. He told her NOT to stay in the set, so Marilyn played the Prima-Donna all the time: not going to the set or arriving very late, and when going she didn,t know the dialogues etc- Olivier himself remembered it like a real-nightmare !!- Marilyn was impossible to work with: same attitudes during "Some like it hot" 1959, and "The Misfits" 1961- During the filming of the last film, Gable had to wait, Marilyn, during hours, had to "help" her all through the filming, and when he died of a heart attack days after the filming,s ending..everybody said that the cause of his death was Marilyn,s attitude during filming- I can tell u more: Gable,s widow (Kay Williams) forbidded Marilyn to go to the funerals !!- A nasty story and a very difficult Star !!-
Many people loves her (Marilyn): I don,t- I think that the proper way of acting with your co-stars, directors, etc. must be the opposite of Marilyn,s attitudes, and she died exactly in "her" time: In the 60,s things began to change, and those "Star attitudes" were no longer acceptable- A different case was Judy Garland: she was labeled as "difficult" cause her drug problem, BUT she tried so hard to "make it" that her co-stars, directors etc admires her a lot- She was a sick-girl, NOT like Marilyn-
I had (HAD-PAST) a friend that loved Marylin. So.. when he talked, and talked about how wonderful she was..I was like - hehe. uncle

Oh, yes all that appears in the movie. How she was always late, and she always forgot her lines, and how Olivier was going crazy, but I think, and I don't think it because of the movie, I thought it much before, that it was not Marilyn's fault entirely that she was so hard to deal with. She suffered a lot; and she was, in my opinion, the biggest (characteristically) ruthless Hollywood product ever. She was very shy and lost and insecure, and Hollywood (speaking of it as the industry) didn't help her, no, they exploited her, handled her as they wanted and let her die as the money maker she was. That's the way I see it. I remember once going quickly over a book with a compilation of many letters, and other things Marilyn wrote, and I was amazed to see how impuissant and lost she felt. Yes, she was a star, and she must have been very difficult to deal with, but I don't think it was entirely her fault. Life didn't treat her well even if she was one of the most famous women in the world.
And I'm not even a big fan of her, anyway. This is only the way I see her case.

[Reanne]

I think that to be a star, and stand under all the pressure and popularity, you need to have self confidence and character but not so much that your cocky and prideful. You need to be able to make your own decisions and not buckle under what everybody else tells you to do or who to be. I think it would be so hard and although I can understand why some stars did struggle, that's no excuse for what they did. But I think it's sad how once someone gets a little taste of fame... they'll do anything to keep it!

[carlos]

Carmen: to tell u the truth... Monroe wasn,t difficult at the beggining of her career: also she was VERY inteligent- Despite her "past" she knows exactly what she wanted- She has a very difficult character indeed- Sometimes she plays the "great Diva", sometimes the "poor girl"- I don,t know, I can,t stand her- THAT,S MY OPINION- uncle.
PS: and to have a difficul life isn,t an excuse for making everybody,s life a Hell: Many Stars had difficult lives (Gene Tierney, Vivien Leigh, Veronica Lake, Susan Hayward, Barbara Stanwyck ETC).. but.. they were always polite and respectfull- I think it,s something to do with "selfiness"- (I don,t know if I wrote it well)- Selfiness makes u to be kind or to be difficult-

[David]

Well I don't know, I've always been very pro-Marilyn - to me she gets so much grief already. There have been so many books written about her, and if you believe all of those then you really start seeing an ugly picture of Marilyn being painted when I honestly don't think even half of the stuff printed about her is true. Take for instance a sexually-filled book on Jean Harlow that was published in the 1960s. Myrna Loy, a close friend of Harlow, said "It makes me wild when I think about the rubbish that is printed.". William Powell as well said quietly "She wasn't like that at all". Or even the outrageous book on Joan Crawford. In other words, with a huge star like Marilyn, there's undoubtedly truth and fiction intertwined.

I have heard that Gable's wife and Marilyn were friends at the time of the filming of the Misfits, and that his wife didn't metion that the cause of Gable's death was related to Monroe But the film was really plagued with problems with the director and stars that I don't find Marilyn's behavior entirely wrong

[Reanne]

I find it so hard to read biography's of the stars because you never really know what's true and then it gives you a negative impression of them... autobiography's I guess might be the way of getting a little more of the truth.

[David]

I find it so hard to read biography's of the stars because you never really know what's true and then it gives you a negative impression of them... autobiography's I guess might be the way of getting a little more of the truth.

Yes for sure autobiography's are better imo